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On Mon, 21 Nov 1994, Rick Savage wrote:

> 
> On Mon, 21 Nov 1994, R Ballard wrote:
> > It has been a long time since I exchanged views with a gran Wazier.  Are 
> > you worthy of such distinction?
 
>     I guess I am unworthy since I have never even heard the term.  Care 
> to enlighten your inferior by defining your meaning for "gran Wazier"?

I once engaged in a public conversation for almost 3 months with a man 
who espoused the same opinions as those included in this paper.  I found 
out later that he was the Grand Wazier of the Klu Klux Klan.  Up until 
that discovery I just figured he was just a fundamentalist christian with 
some rather extreme solutions to poverty.

> > On Fri, 28 Oct 1994, Rick Savage wrote:
> > > >From anonymous FTP site:    ftp.netcom.com /pub/SFA
> > > -----------------------------------------
I find it interesting that this was found on netcom.com, I realize that 
most hosts are only concerned with publication of protected intellectual 
property and breach of confidentiality (medical records, credit cards, 
passwords, telephone authorization codes...) but this doesn't seem to be 
the type of thing that netcom would openly endorse.

> > > PICKING AT SCABS
> > I can't say that I'm particularly fond of Mr Clinton (Yes, I am a 
> > Republican), but I have worked in the Banking, Insurance, and Publishing 
> > industry for 10 years now.  I wouldn't say there are NO Jews, but I 
> > wouldn't say they have a monopoly, or even control, or even a significant 
> > influence on the industry.  There are whites, blacks, jews, latins, 
> > indians, and even a few right wing fundamentalists.
> 
>    What would you say the key positions would be to control an industry 
> while giving the illusion of "diversity"?
Actually there is a great deal of control exercised by advertizers, most 
of which are directed (Directer to CEO level) by fundamentalist 
christians.  Busch, Kellogg, Graham, and Coors are strong players in the 
marketplace.  Their progeny litter several hundred directorates.

The broadcast media depends on advertizing for survival.  The advertizers 
exert much more control than the media or the government.  That media 
which is not so dependent are either "underground" or "pornography".

> > If you want to talk about infection, how about the way the white 
> > Europeans "Invected" North America and South America.  We left them a few 
> > concentration camps in the middle of the deserts of of Colorado and 
> > Arizona.  I've been to a few "Reservations", nowhere near as nice as the 
> > National Parks and National Forests we took from them.
>    Why not talk about the history of the North American continent and who 
> was here first?

The population indiginous to the western hemisphere was not jewish, was 
it invaded by Jews?  Did the Jews put the Indians in concentration 
camps?  Did the Jews put women and children to death while the men were 
out hunting?  No, these are the trademarks of the Spanish Inquisition, 
the Salem Witch Trials, the Klu Klux Klan, the BushWhackers, and several 
other extremist Christian organizations.  You have to admit though, it 
was effective.

> > The Belle's of the South were never conspiously consumptive.  The 
> > overseers of the plantations were so polite to the slaves that the slaves 
> > would come back just because they asked so nicely.  The poor white trash 
> > never concieved babies out of wedlock, and they NEVER impregnated a black 
> > woman.  To rape a black woman would be a crime punishable by burning at 
> > the cross.  Right?

>     Interesting ideas, are you claiming that all white people are 
> saints?  :)

Your getting into the spirit! :-).  Every race and population has their 
Gandhi's, Kennedy's, Martin Luther King's, and every population has their 
Hitler's, Stalin's, and IDI Amin Dada's.  Elevating one race or creed 
over the others will not solve anything.
 
> > Which advanced civilization is this?  The one in Florida that executed 25 
> > men who were known to be innocent but had received "Due Process" even 
> > though there was new evidence that would have cleared them?

There are several cases in Florida where Catholic Priests have come 
forward with the confessions which confirmed that the accused was 
entitled to at minimum a stay pending further investigation.  The state 
of Florida has streamlined the appeal process such that only the merits 
of the original trial can be challenged.  In Texas, lawyers in Dallas are 
appointed by the judges based on their ability to expidite the trials.  
The defense attourney often doesn't even challenge hostile jurors.

In some cases, the families pursue further investigation for religious 
reasons.  In other cases someone else is identified for the capital 
crime.  Players in the drug world can often be mismarked.

>      I must have missed this, maybe you can educate me about the 
> particulars of this rare incident.  Do you want to do comparitive studies 
> of crime per ethnic group?

Let's do comparitive studies of convictions and deliberations and "due 
process" for different economic, ethnic, and geographic strata.  You soon 
discover that justice is often a relative thing.  If you are poor, it 
doesn't matter if you're innocent, you accept the plea bargain.  These 
quickly turn into justification for further charges.  If you're a bit 
more affluent, the charges are often sumarrily dropped.

The Wall Street Journal has run several articles on this type of justice.

> > >      Another Jewish trait that permeates American society is the 
> > > "Never Forget Syndrome."  I like to call it picking at scabs.
> > 
> > When the black gangs come to your home, castrate you, execute your child, 
> > and rape then kill your wife and mother, you will forget after a short 
> > period of mourning.  Right?
> 
>     There is a thing called justice.  Once it is met, then it is time to 
> get on with one's life.  The "Jews" have made "Justice" into a 
> money-making proposition and tool for silencing opposition.

For every Jew that survived to 1945, there were about 200 that died.  
What is Justice?  Should the Jews exterminate 99% of the Christian 
population as a repayment.  The Allies knew what was happening, they even 
avoided bombing the Death Camp Trains.  Hitler actually took this as 
endorsement of what he was doing to the Jews.  We were reading about it 
from the Enigma.  We were neither ignorant nor innocent.

The nation of Islam has sworn itself to the ultimate destruction of 
Israel and the restoration of Islamic Palestine.  Arafat still cannot 
control that sentiment.  It takes 120 seconds to fly a MIG across 
Israel.  Any unidentified aircraft in their airspace is shot down 
(including near misses of U.S. planes).  They have 30 seconds to make the 
decision whether to shoot down the plane.

In Europe, the Holocaust has already been forgotten.  Antisemitism is 
open and militant.  Neo-Nazis in the U.S., France, and West Germany 
advocate a return to the values of the Super Race.  About the only real 
haven for Jews is New York City, and Denver Colorado.  Even in Denver, 
hasidic Judaism is rarely practiced.
 
By the way, the Jews weren't the only ones killed in the Holocaust.  
Gays, Lesbians, Intellectuals, and "liberal" christians, as well as 
communists, gypsies, and about 40 other "target groups" were in the camps 
as well.  These groups were also the targets of the Pragram, the 
Inquisition, the Crusades, and several Jihaads.  People would just forget 
how it all got started.  As soon as we forget the Holocaust, it will 
happen again.  Perhaps they will get YOU this time.

> > >      From Freud to the latest Jewish headshrinker on the nonfiction 
> > > bestseller list, Jews have achieved fame and fortune by convincing 
> > > us to pick at every scab -- real or imaginary -- long after the injury 
> > > -- real or imaginary.
> > 
> > Amazing, now all headshrinkers are Jewish too?  How about some of those 
> > masterful Nazis who managed to exploit the psyche of eastern Europe, at 
> > the expense of between 12 million and 16 million lives?  They were GOOD 
> > men?

>     What, Freud wasn't a "Jew"?  Nazis did what?  You mean the bankers of 
Freud wasn't the only headshrinker.  Eichman was a master of applied 
psychology.  Hitler himself was a master of mob psychology.  Freud has 
been proven to be much less useful than Mein Kamf in the domain of 
altering entire cultures.

> the Bank of England and Wall Street....
I keep forgetting about the contributions that the Aster's, Carnagies, 
and Rockefellers made to the Reich.  Apparently they skipped those 
interesting chapters in Mein Kampf.

> You seemed to have left out 
> Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, etc....

O.K. Trotsky was Jewish, and the Pragrams and the Purges eventually 
included Trotsky himself.  Most of the Jews were in Poland and Eastern 
Europe because they had escaped from Russia.  When the war ended, many of 
them were forced back to Russia.

> > >      There is a two-step process at work here.  First you convince 
> > > 'em they're sick, then you sell 'em the cure!  It's an unbeatable 
> > > combination.
> > 
> > Kind of like the "Breakdown of the Family" cured by right wing 
> > fundamentalism and concentration camps for Gays, Lesbians, Unwed Mothers, 
> > Deadbeat Fathers (those unwilling to pay 75% of their earnings to other 
> > "deserving forces"), and of course let's not forget the Poor White Trash.
> > We can come up with interesting names, like Quarantine Centers, Minimum 
> > Security Prisons, Supervised Homes, and Non-costodial parent support 
> > quarters.  Nice, polite words for Concentration Camps!!
> 
>      Gays don't need to be locked up, the Bible calls for a different 
> punishment (Lev. 20:13).  Quarantine Centers should would help prevent 
> much unnecessary suffering.  

At last, your true colors are showing!  Don't you long for the good old 
days of the Inquisitional confession?  We didn't have to divorce our 
women, we just had them confess to being witches.  A few hours of torture 
in the public square would eliminate any protests of innocence.  And then 
there would be that quick roasting at the stake.  You never knew who 
would be next did you?

> > > And most of it belongs to the Majority.  
> > Is that the MORAL MAJORITY?
> > Yes those Poor Abused Fundamentalist Klansmen have really been abused 
> > haven't they?  Our only hope is Pat Roberson!!!  Newt will save us!!!

>     Are your true colors showing now?  Couldn't maintain your cool for 
> very long huh?

I have so many colors.  I'm even a white Republican.  I was looking 
forward to a more stable economy under the new congress.  Then Newt 
started crowing about how he was going to impose compulsery prayer in the 
schools, federal subsidies of christian schools at the cost of support 
for public schools....  I wonder how long the republicans will last 
against a united front consisting of all of the minorities and lower 
middle class whites.

> > > Jose'" variety.
> > Should we keep them wetbacks in "the boxes" where they belong??
>     Nah, they just need a new song on the glories of ol' Mexico that 
> makes them wonder why they ever left in the first place.

What, and lose all that cheap labor?  The price of groceries would skyrocket!

> > >      - They called me fatso and hurt my feelings!
> > >      - My dad never told me he loved me!
> > >      - My parents use racial slurs when no one else is around.
> > >      - They said I wasn't pretty enough to make the cheerleading 
> > > squad.
> > >      - My mother wouldn't accept my black boyfriend.
> > >      - My supervisor fondled my buttocks!
> > Oh, Can I fondle your wife's buttocks?  I'll even let her come on my next 
> > business trip with me??  I'll bring your daugher too, OK?  I guess it 
> > really is the same!
>    This is sure convincing me of your "moral" superiority.

The process of minimizing sexual harassment by relating it to "they 
called me fatso..." is a common tactic I've seen elsewhere.  By attacking 
and exposing the target that is supposed to be trivialized, the other 
cites become more valid as well.  What if the black boyfriend is a West 
Point Graduate and a Major?  What if the racial slurs resulted in the 
death of a young black man, or the young white boy who repeated them.

The actions cited seem trivial.  The intent behind the trivialization is 
to eliminate responsibility for the consequences of racism and sexism.


> > Really!  They shouldn't get worked up about guys who dress in the same 
> > uniforms as the men who killed their grandparents.  They  certainly 
> > shouldn't get concerned when those men wearing swastika armbands start 
> > cheering "Death to Jews", should they?  And we shouldn't be concerned 
> > when FaraKan leads the blacks in cheers of "Death to Whites" either?  It 
> > really doesn't matter that both cheers end in violence directed at their 
> > targets over the next 48 hours.  It's just free speech.
> 
>    The Jews need to quite watching movies and righting all that fiction.  
> If they could put all their boogie-men to rest and face reality they 
> might find life isn't that bad.  But it is more profitable to complain, 
> whimper and whine.

Within this decade, you will see at least one more replay of the open 
tactics used in Nazi Germany that led to Auschvitz.  Ironically, it may 
be that Israel may be one of the perpetrators.  We will probably see it 
in this country as well.

> > Actually, I'm very interested in what you have to say.  If you decide to 
> > start killing me, I want to make sure I have a good Lawyer, even if he 
> > happens to be Jewish.

>     If someone killed you, what use would you have for a lawyer?

I said if you decide to start killing people like me.  If you threaten to 
kill someone like me, or threaten to kill me.  I can at least press 
charges of assault.  Economic death is much more popular.  I might want 
the lawyer when you start trying to force me to quit my job, or just fire 
me without cause and put me on the Black-List (Remember the one Ronnie 
Raegan ran in the 50's?), I can at least make life more interesting.

> > It's silly of those silly people to want to recognize that they have to 
> > be responsible for the consequences of their own actions, isn't it.  It's 
> > so much easier to blame the alcoholic or their queer son.  I've been to 
> > some of their meetings.  They don't let you play victim for long!
> 
>     Yea, they are growing up...slowly.  Learned the lesson the hard way, 
> whining doesn't change anything.  Most normal people change a failing 
> policy when it doesn't work.  Unless of course you have offical 
> government sanction and make millions from it.

There's a big difference between the State/Insurance Subsidised treatment 
cemters which are highly vested in the triple relapse, and the 12 step 
programs which are self-supporting and receive no federal funding.  The 
best meetings are in the basements of churches.

> > You shouldn't be sharing about how upset you are about all this silly 
> > cultural insanity, It's your problem, if you don't like it, go back to 
> > Europe where you belong!
> 
>     When the American majority who founded this country wake up it wont 
> be them that leave.

Are you talking about the handful of radicals who wrote the declaration 
of independence?  Are you talking about the Englishmen trained by Germans 
to shoot at Englishmen?  Are you talking about the group that drafted the 
Constitution or the group that drafted the Bill of Rights?  Are you 
talking about the civil war deserters who built farms on the land 
previously occupied by the Navahoe, Hopi, and Apache? (Oklahoma, Texas, 
Colorado, Missouri, Montana...), the same tribes that made peace with the 
Union so that they could fight the civil war.

Many men and women, Black, White, Indian, Oriental, Irish, Mexican, and 
French, have given their lives for the principles of the United States of 
America.  To claim that the only true Americans are of British descent is 
to ignore history.

> > Isn't it a great system.  You have a problem, talk to the lawyer, and he 
> > agrees to fix it for a contingincy fee.  Two days later he tells you he 
> > is suing someone for one million dollars.  If you drop the suit because 
> > you think it's frivolous, you only have to pay the Lawyer $333,333,  I 
> > know some great lawyers who would love to help you sue some Jews, OK?
> 
>     If everyone could only be a lawyer!  We sure would be a prosperous 
> country.  Our economy would boom overnight!  Just what we need!

We love to point out the goofy lawsuits, but we don't want to look at 
what creates them in the first place.  The cause of the suit is less 
important than the structure that allows lawyers to exploit the ignorance 
of others.  When the client can drop or settle without having to come up 
with legal fees, the lawyers will be more careful about what cases they 
take.  Right now, the only ones who have anything significant to loose 
are the defendants.

> > Oh BOY!  Eichman is BACK!!!  Can we compare them to the mentally retarded 
> > and the insane as well?  Maybe we can put them all in "Hospitals" and 
> > then we can experiment on them and find out what's really wrong with 
> > them!  Maybe we can even cure them from being Jewish!!
 
>     And this isn't happening in modern American?
Actually, it is.  There is also a much better chance that the APA will 
find that fundamentalist christianity is a major factor of "insanity" and 
use that to limit religious expression.  It probably won't happen for 
another 10 or 20 years.  What would happen if the shoe were on the other 
foot?

> > It's amazing isn't it, it takes a Gentile 80 years to become as wise and 
> > sensible as a Jew is at 30.  Maybe we are the scum and THEY are the 
> > "Master Race".
> 
>     The lessons of history teach a different story.  The ascention of the 
> "Jew" is short-lived because they have not yet learned when enough is enough.

Amazing isn't it?  The Jews are the oldest living Civilization.  This in 
the face of over 5000 years of attempted extermination.  Hitler only 
tried to finish what Ramoses started.

> > > we can never forget.  (We are, however, constantly advised to 
> > > deep-six the Old South and the Stars and Bars, even though "Old 
> > > times there are not forgotten.")  Too many of us have become 
> > 
> > > emotionally disabled for life.  Note the terms "incest survivor" or 
> > > "rape survivor" as opposed to "incest victim" or "rape victim."  
> > 
> > Ever been raped?  By a MAN?  Try it, you might like it, if you survive!
> > Then, imagine being forced to inhale a quart of semen coming out of a 
> > penus the size of a large zuccini.  That's what it's like when you're 
> > only 3 or 5 years old.  In the moment, you think you are going to die.  
> > But you survive, and wait for the next time.
> 
>     It must have been a terrible thing.  And gays don't think that Lev. 
> 20:13 is merciful and loving?

Leviticus actually uses the Hebrew word for rape which is translated to 
"Lay with".  There are 20 different words for sex in Hebrew which are 
translated to only two English words.  There are 30 different words for 
professional women (Yenta), all of which were translated to prostitute or 
harlot.  King James wanted to make sure that none of Henry VIIIs 
daughters tried to usurp the throne.  The Bible, and Shakesperean Plays 
were very effective propaganda.  Learn Yiddish to really understand the 
cultural subtleties of Hebrew.  Even the Greek loses a great deal in the 
translation.

> > > Well, why wouldn't you survive?  As brutal and repulsive as these 
> > > activities may be, they are not usually life-threatening.  But the 
> > 
> > You obviously haven't been raped.
> 
>     Nor do I plan to.  Someone would die if it did.

Perhaps you have the ability and authority and immunity to enforce that 
statement.  When you are a woman, or the man is holding a lethal weapon 
to a vital organ, you may not have the choice.  If he leaves the scene 
and you haven't killed him, the law will charge you for murder if you 
kill him.  If you tried to do the G.I. Joe routine, the rapist would kill 
you.  Hence the term rape survivor.

> > >      So let's look at the Holocaust afresh.  Forget the body count 
> > > and let the Jews assert that Six Million Jews died in concentration 
> > > camps.  Then let us utter the time-honored words, "So what?"
> > We have just decided to kill your wife, children, grandchildren, parents, 
> > grandparents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, nieces, and nephews.  You 
> > will be the only survivor.  So WHAT?
> 
>     Well, if this really happened to the "Jews" than they may have had 
> something to snif at for a few years.  

Hey, let's be fair, the Jews weren't the only ones in the camps.  There 
were Jews, Gypsies, Christians, Russians, Slavs, Pols...  The total death 
count was close to 12 million.  Only about 60% were Jews.  The Russians 
got revenge and most of Eastern Europe.  The Jews got a tiny indefensible 
patch of land in the middle of a desert.  They have faced 4 extermination 
attempts since 1949.

> > > your field of view.  Out of the thousands that you see, every one 
> > > will feel pain at various stages of his life -- guaranteed!  And every 
> > > one will die -- guaranteed!
> > 
> > Of course, we don't know who, or when, or how.  It's the uncertainty of 
> > life that makes death a certainty we can live with.  When death is a 
> > certainty, planned and efficiently implemented by a group of uniformed 
> > and organized men, while the local population observes and giggles, it 
> > is no longer God who is the only one you can blame.
> 
>     When this propaganda hoax explodes in the next 5 years, this fantasy 
> may become a reality.  If I was "Jewish" I'd be preaching love and 
> forgiveness for liars about now....

Which propaganda hoax?  The bodies the Americans had to push with 
bulldozers because the Germans couldn't burn the bodies fast enough?  
The men had some very distinguishing characteristics.  We also have the 
records provided by Spear and other "Minor" nazis.  They didn't deny 
killing those Jews.  They claimed that they couldn't deal with the 
consequences of NOT killing Jews.  The next step from the death camps was 
the Russian Front.

> > Rick, I hope you appreciate my "Tongue in cheek sarcasm",  Perhaps you 
> > actually expound the same view, either way, thanks for the evidence.
> > The "Focus on the Family" groups are much like this.

>     It was fun.  Maybe we can play again sometime.

I think I would rather participate in more public forums.  Buy the way, 
is your child support paid up?

	Rex Ballard


From rballard@cnj.digex.net Wed Nov 23 15:34:48 1994
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